Please, do NOT shutdown 2G

  • 10 August 2020
  • 82 replies
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As soon as AT&T shut down 2G I switched to T-Mobile.

Now I am hearing rumors that T-Mobile is shutting down 2G at the end of 2020.

I have an Ebay bushiness unlocking AT&T older phones for use on T-Mobile.  Shutting down 2G will make all these phones useless, creating an unimaginable amount of e-waste and destroying me and many others source of income.

A large amount of people still use these older 2G-only phones, due to their reliability and people disliking the lack of options, poor repairability, and poor build quality in the modern phone market.

Perhaps you can add a fee for 2G service to help keep up the cost of maintaining the older network, but I beg, do NOT shut down 2G.

ESPECIALLY because of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is an incredibly terrible idea to force the shutdown at this moment. Many businesses will not be able to cough up the cost for new equipment that relied on the legacy 2G network.

82 replies

F
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In general, it's not about the processor, or age of the device, but having equipment, spectrum, training and a business case to maintain it.   Just as you can fire up Windows 95, you're going to run into hardware issues as drivers won't support it, nor will modern 64 bit cpu.   From a business side, they have to maintain and support the operations… not just turn the switch and wall away.  Then, they have to have the business case.  I.e.  what TMobile devices are still using it?  What happens when hardware upgrade comes and can't support 2g?  Who physically will be trained to support it at the call centers?  Security patches aren't a thing for obsolescence either.   I have nothing against 2g (Still have a Nokia 1260 and Motorola Timeport).  you might want to invest in HAM equipment.

M

Tmobile is going to shut it down when they feel it’s needed and re-purpose the bandwidth as they see fit.

Tmobile makes more money selling 5G phones than they do 2G.


I know. Which is why I suggested a fee for 2G service for those who need it so they can make money.

 

They could make more money than whatever fees they would get for keeping it active.
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drnewcomb
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The BYOD SIMs don’t work anymore?? That’s a scum move if it’s true.


The GSM SIM is now an app within the UICC. T-Mobile appears to have not included the 2G SIM on any of their recent cards. My current card will work on older 2G/3G devices (e.g. Moto V980)  but is not recognized by any of my 2G-only devices (e.g. V550) and I agree, it’s kind of a lousy thing to do. Even if  I don’t need to use a 2G phone in the USA, there may be situations where I’d be forced to use one overseas.

I don't speak for T-Mobile.
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Thanks for the opinions everyone. I still disagree with shutting down 2G completely though.

I hope someone from T-Mobile can get us some official and current information about the future of 2G, if any, soon.

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So you’re PO’d that Tmobile is going to put a big dent in your eBay business by upgrading their network by being progressive.

Shutting down 2G will affect thousands of people and will cause a massive amount of e-waste from perfectly usable phones. It’s not just me. It’s thousands of others who believe in the Right to Repair their own devices and re-using them, rather than nonstop consuming and throwing away.

There’s nothing “progressive” about consumerism and planned obsolescence. It is what’s polluting our planet.

AT&T shutting down 2G was 100% greed based to sell new devices.

I will not judge T-Mobile yet since there is no confirmation they will completely shut down 2G yet.

drnewcomb
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I’d just like to point out that T-Mobile is the only major US carrier that currently allows customers to use whatever device they want. Verizon requires approved devices and won’t activate a non-LTE device. AT&T dropped 2G years ago and won’t allow BYOD’s access to VoLTE. USCC & CSpire: see Verizon. Maybe Viaero and Union. (Only one Viaero 2G site has been seen on CellMapper in the last year. The last Union 2G site was mapped in 2018.For comparison’s sake, 10 T-Mobile 2G sites have been mapped by CellMapper this year, in my county alone.)

Maybe some ire needs to be directed at the competition for their abandonment of 2G technology.

I don't speak for T-Mobile.
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 It would be similar in the computer industry to keeping Windows 95 supported with dial up modems.

Except I can still do that and dialing-up to the internet on a Windows 95 system works just fine. There are lots of applications where dial-up and legacy systems are still in use.

(Plus you can’t exactly swap out a network expansion card for a different one in a phone)

I don’t think it’s necessary to have dedicated 2G hardware anymore as software can do the job now. Also it can run in the “guard bands” so those can’t be used anyway for 4G.

I think most new phones will use 5G 600MHZ so why bother expanding 4G LTE into 2G when it’s usage will start to drop? All the ads are about 5G nowadays anyway?

Lots of people still use older mobiles because they like them much better. The NOKIA phones are still famous for their durability.

I dislike the large size, glaring brows on the screen, lack of repairability, no buttons, thin and flimsiness, etc. on modern phones.

Yes, the software and processor speeds, memory, etc are behind but they do what they were meant to do just fine. I love calling, texting, e-mailing, some basic web browsing, and watching videos I downloaded on my SD card on my BlackBerry Curve. I also have a whole collection of 2G phones I could write a whole book about. Phones made before the mid-2010s weren’t fashion accessories or contests about being more anorexically thin than the other guy’s phone, but tools for work, family, and fun.

Interesting read: (it’s from the UK but most still applies here)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonrockman1/2019/08/01/millions-will-lose-out-when-government-kills-2g/?sh=321e40777cd8

D
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This, my dear friend, may make you sweat a bit. 

 

https://www.t-mobile.com/news/business/t-mobile-and-deutsche-telekom-launch-t-iot

 

I believe our days may be numbered. Still plentiful, but definitely numbered. 

I have read the link you sent and I am not against the 5G development BUT the existing 2G or 3G network NEEDS to stay, why? If Deutsche Telekom and T-Mobile completely ditch their older networks, then if these LTE or 5G towers fail, then there will be no backup system to cover these devices. As I read, they even stated that the gap between 5G IoT and reality is major.

 

Speaking of our old durable phones, I agree with you that the days are numbered for 2G network but our humanly days are also numbered, and we are living in the Biblical end times too. I know man, I really like my old phones too, I have a Nokia 3390, 5190, 1616-2c, and a 3395 but unfortunately I noticed modern SIM cards barely work or at all with them, example I can give is on my 3390 the phone disconnects after a few hours and I have to reconnect with my smartphone to get service back, while my 3395 unlocked from X-Cingular works really good but it still loses service suddenly and I have to restart it to get it back, so unfortunately that means THE ONLY people that will access the 2G network trouble free for a long time to come are those that still didn’t upgrade or have a really old SIM card to work well in a really old 90s or a early 2000s phone.

 

It is a very sad world we live in where we are nearly being forced to use a phone that we don’t necessarily want to use 24/7. I am not against 5G but personally not interested in 5G because all 5G phones and the infrastructure are so poorly built, phones like the Galaxy S22 Ultra are extremely fragile and break apart in seconds, and newer iPhones from the 12 and now the upcoming 14 are also a little bit more fragile than older iPhones that can withstand anything, I work at a uBreakiFix repair shop so I have seen it already and if you have any further questions about various phones and their durability please ask me or DM me if you can.

 

In conclusion: I also want to be able to use my Nokias for many more years to come, I may not be using a 3310 or a 5110 in 2022 but a newer one on the 2G network will do me justice. T-Mobile 2G GSM Network shutdown won’t happen for a good while because they realize how many people will complain to them about the complete sunset if they actually do it and not only that, they will lose a lot of those people (kind of including me) in the process due to the shutdown because T-Mobile is based upon: “helping people that don’t want to pay or don’t have the funds for overpriced Verizon or AT&T service and it’s not phones only, it could also be for M2M and IoT machines.”

2G should stay even when 6G comes out! Luckily carriers are keeping 2G at reduced capacity!
F
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Well it still is active along the centi coast. 

 

F
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I’d recommend following T-Mobile’s actual shutdown dates vs. TMoNews

https://www.t-mobile.com/support/coverage/t-mobile-network-evolution

Key Dates

  • As of March 31, 2022 Sprint’s older 3G (CDMA) network will be retired
  • As of June 30, 2022 Sprint’s LTE network will be retired
  • As of July 1, 2022 T-Mobile’s older 3G UMTS network will be retired

We’ve also shared that we plan to retire T-Mobile’s older GSM 2G network as well, but no date has been set. We will update this page with any additional information in the future. 

gramps28
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Tmobile is going to shut it down when they feel it’s needed and re-purpose the bandwidth as they see fit.

Tmobile makes more money selling 5G phones than they do 2G.

gramps28
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There’s no reason Tmobile needs to do this.

sweetpeach
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Progress happens. :wink:  Tmobile, as well as the other major carriers, needs to convert those bands so that an ever increasing number of consumers can use a finite amount of bandwidth. More customers can connect to a 5G band than can connect to a 2G or 3G band. Plus they will have a better experience with faster speeds. :smiley:  Basically, this is happening so try to plan for the inevitable.

gramps28
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So you’re PO’d that Tmobile is going to put a big dent in your eBay business by upgrading their network by being progressive.

gramps28
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You’re an Ebay seller so you’re all about consumerism if you weren’t you wouldn’t be selling on Ebay but donating the phones to needy people.

Don’t come on here spouting virtue when you’re all about is the money.

 

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BTW, I quit reading your post after this.

Good. I’ll quit reading yours because you don’t have anything to say other than personal attacks.


Get back over to eBay overcharging people for your service.


FYI I usually list below the price of other listings for the same model of phone.

But this is getting silly, let’s just respect each others opinions and not fight about this anymore.

A

I'm late to the party, but I understand T-mobile shutting down 2G. People can say it is greed, but they are ignoring the other factors. A lot of people want smartphones. And they typically want faster internet speeds. As fewer people use 2G, eventually the cost to maintain 2G will become more than what subscribers pay. Sure they can charge more to these individuals but even then, as these holdouts move to new tech, the only way to maintain profit is to keep raising costs. It is like a car. At some point the costs to keep an old car going will outweigh the cost of getting something newer. Just like the ebay business, businesses are out to make money (or break even for non profits) No business can last of they lose money. 

P

Necroing an old post here but whatever. Phasing out 2G is a necessity to keep up with an exponential increase in mobile data consumption. You expecting them to keep 2G active it's like a coal miner expecting us to not switch to cleaner energy.  The world changes. You must be able to adapt to these changes to survive. Learn a new skill, or find a new job, but you have had ample time and notice of the inevitable shutdown of legacy networks. Inaction on your part does not constitute an emergency on T-Mobiles part.  T-Mobile needs to repurpose this bandwidth to deliver next generation connectivity.  

James Bond

As soon as AT&T shut down 2G I switched to T-Mobile.

Now I am hearing rumors that T-Mobile is shutting down 2G at the end of 2020.

I have an Ebay bushiness unlocking AT&T older phones for use on T-Mobile.  Shutting down 2G will make all these phones useless, creating an unimaginable amount of e-waste and destroying me and many others source of income.

A large amount of people still use these older 2G-only phones, due to their reliability and people disliking the lack of options, poor repairability, and poor build quality in the modern phone market.

Perhaps you can add a fee for 2G service to help keep up the cost of maintaining the older network, but I beg, do NOT shut down 2G.

ESPECIALLY because of the COVID-19 pandemic, it is an incredibly terrible idea to force the shutdown at this moment. Many businesses will not be able to cough up the cost for new equipment that relied on the legacy 2G network.

I tip my hat off to you and to anyone else who is for the keeping of 2G. I understand both sides of the game. But I am biased as I want to continue playing on and using a taco to make calls all while enjoying all the weird looks I get with my original v1 Nokia N-gage. 😍

Now There's A Name To Die For
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they will lose a lot of those people (kind of including me) in the process due to the shutdown because T-Mobile is based upon: “helping people that don’t want to pay or don’t have the funds for overpriced Verizon or AT&T service and it’s not phones only, it could also be for M2M and IoT machines.”

 

Ironically, if (when) they cut 2G, you’ll have nowhere to go, as 2G has been removed from all others.

 I am not against 5G but personally not interested in 5G because all 5G phones and the infrastructure are so poorly built, phones like the Galaxy S22 Ultra are extremely fragile and break apart in seconds, 

If you want a more rugged device, a CAT 562 or CAT S22 should be sturdy enough.

In my area, EDGE as well as 3G are both still active in my area, however, converted Sprint sites do not have the 2G/3G deployment (also missing one panel).  Similarly, many states on 2G only will have … ‘No Service’ period, as 2G was never deployed, but 4G B71/5G n71 were.  Also … nothing to roam on, as T-Mobile is the last carrier with 2G.

Note:  T-Mobile’s maps are always over optimistic on coverage .. take it with a grain of salt.

vs

 

F
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Here sort of lies the problem with ‘keeping 2G’ on newer infrastructure.

I’m not against it, in general, however keeping 2G live/supported would be akin to trying to get a Windows 2003 server image on Azure.

When T-Mobile (and others) have their new 5G gear dropped in.. if it is merely an existing chassis card add on.. then that might be doable.  When it is a replace gear X with gear Y, and Y doesn’t have 2G or room for an extra card which supports 2G… then you have a problem.  Not all sites are built equally either.  Sites like a macro may have more flexibility than a site that is grafted onto a utility pole.

I’ve seen areas that have decommed 3G on PCS to move it to 3G AWS (not all phones support 3G on AWS… most T-Mobile branded ones do).  This was a logistical move, as T-Mobile has 20x20MHz + 5x5MHz of AWS spectrum and 15x15 of PCS.  Moving the 3G to AWS allows for more efficiency of LTE carrier aggregation on AWS (full 20x20) and PCS (15x15). vs. slicing up PCS to 10x10 and requiring an extra carrier aggregation of 20x20 + 5x5 for AWS.

With that… moving 3G to AWS also removed… GSM 2G - as there is no GSM on AWS bands.  This was done a couple years back.

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2G can be run on the guard bands of 4G though. Also 5G is 600MHZ and 2G is 1900MHZ. Again, instead of shutting it down, T-Mobile could charge extra for 2G service to maintain the cost of the equipment.

Forcefully shutting it down is planned obsolescence and will create an environmental disaster from useless phones. There should always be a legacy option available.

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Tmobile is going to shut it down when they feel it’s needed and re-purpose the bandwidth as they see fit.

Tmobile makes more money selling 5G phones than they do 2G.


I know. Which is why I suggested a fee for 2G service for those who need it so they can make money.

 

They could make more money than whatever fees they would get for keeping it active.
Analog TV went away
Iceboxes went away
Typewriters went away.  
8 Track players went way
Technology keeps evolving

 


But no one came and smashed my older stuff with a hammer to make it useless. There isn’t a monopoly controlling all these things like with telecom.

drnewcomb
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2G runs on the guard bands of 4G so it likely already runs on the same equipment anyway.

 

 

Keep in mind that I have a collection of about a dozen old 2G phones that I would very much like to be able to play around with and it really bothers me that my current T-Mobile SIMs aren’t even recognized by these old phones and I also realize that nothing I say will change your mind. The 2G capacity of implementations in the guard bands of band 2 LTE is extremely limited. This has been shown in places like NYC where nothing but complaints came from leaving 2G running this way. It’s really intended only for legacy M2M applications, which typically communicate rarely and only in short bursts, not to support general use.

I don't speak for T-Mobile.
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This is infuriating since it costs nothing to put the application in the SIM card and is obviously a measure to sell unwanted new phones.

Perhaps we can dump an old SIM, get the application, and the re-flash a programmable SIM with the data from the new SIM + the 2G application from the old SIM.

This wouldn’t be much use if T-Mobile shuts down 2G but we don’t have anything official yet.

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