Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

strumerjohn

    Just curious if anyone knows exactly why the Note 10+ 5G cannot support mmWave alongside lowband 600mhz 5G.

     

    If it does have the X55 modem inside it, it should be able to do both as far as I've read. Is this just a software/driver/firmware limitation that could one day be overcome with an OTA update? I did a little bit of digging and I saw something along the lines of Samsung not having figured out how to tap into supporting low/mid + high band (mmWave) 5G all at once on the modem, but I'm not sure how accurate this speculation is.

     

    From what I've seen from the Qualcomm event in Maui, 2020 phones will also be using this modem so are we going to have to choose between devices tuned to just either mmWave or low+midband setups? Seems silly to fragment the 5G support like this.

      All replies

      • syaoran

        Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

        For now, these 5G modems are limited to a single implementation.  Whether or not Samsung released a firmware where two or three forms of 5G are all incorporated into the same modem firmware, only time will tell.  My guess though is, we won't see that until the next hardware version 5G modem is released. 

        1 of 1 people found this helpful
        • ubibaju

          Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

          Simple answer is that Tmobile is going from low frequency spectrum up to mmWave last and there is no reason to have something you will not have choice most of the time to enjoy.

          • tidbits

            Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

            It has the old radio which doesn't support what you are looking for. Also 2020 phones that will support both more than likely will not happen in the first quarter of 2020.  It'll likely be the 3rd quarter.  No earlier than second quarter if some OEM paid $$$$ to qualcomm to be exclusive for a quarter or two.

             

             

            The T-Mobile variant of the Note 10 5G series is the same as Verizon which is either or. 

              • ittech

                Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                I am sorry to disagree, but this is not true.  The Verizon Note 10 5G uses the first generation modem chip, the x50. It does do mmWave 5G, but does not handle the sub 6 low band correctly that T-mobile is now using. But the Note10 5G uses the second generation x55 modem WHICH IS THE UNIVERSAL CHIP. It can address all bands that 5G supports, not just here, but everywhere in the world.

                 

                So why does this phone not support 5G when the chip does? the answer is that mmWave 5G is a special beast. mmWave is very hard to receive and requires special antennas and many of them. These antenna modules are extra cost parts and consume extra room. 5G is power hungry and requires larger batteries. Put larger antennas and larger batteries together and you run out of room. Samsung and other designers are cramped for room. To add a part that will not be used on the T-Mobile network and that causes further compromises just doesn't make sense. So, 5G phones will match the carrier's specs as there just isn't a lot of room to play with.

                 

                There likely will be universal phones starting with the S11.  Why? No S-Pen.  Samsung has been hinting that the S-Pen may be going away. Why? No room, the same reason that the headphone jack was removed. The S11 will likely be as large as the Note 11 and will not contain an S-Pen. Instead, it will contain the additional antennas necessary to receive mmWave.

                 

                But I do not feel cheated.  mmWave is not the future of T-Mobile in the short term. The next step is the completion of the Sprint acquisition and add the Sprint Mid-band 5G to the low band T-Mobile. The combination will be quite impressive, will not require micro-cells on every block, won't be blocked by leaves or your hand and will be available years before mmWave is available for most. I am a loyal T-Mobile customer and AT&T/Verizon have no 5G plans that will benefit me any time soon. mmWave is not a technology that T-Mobile is currently focused on.  If the Sprint merger completes, this phone will support the new frequencies with a simple software update.  So, to the OP, enjoy the Note 10+ 5G. if you plan on staying with T-Mobile, you are future proofed for a long time.  If you are concerned because you want to hop from carrier to carrier, there will be phones in 2020, but there will be compromises.  The x55 chip is the 5G chip of 2020. You have it today.

                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • strumerjohn

                    Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                    Thank you for your detailed reply! I hope most of these other replies aren't from T-mobile employees because they clearly dont know what they're talking about. I reported the post that was marked as the answer as abuse, and requested that yours be put as the correct answer/solution. I appreciate the information! I figured it may just be some supplemental components the phone may be missing...

                    • sweetpeach

                      Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                      My Samsung Note 10+ 5G has the x55 (SDX55M). See:

                      https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-x55-5g-modem

                        • nascardriver33

                          Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                          Interestingly, the aforementioned link to SDX55M states that it is capable of mm wave bandwidth...!!!

                            • syaoran

                              Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                              It is, just like it is capable. If mid-band as well.  However, either due to a limitation of the modem or Samsung limiting the modem to a single band of 5G connectivity, it is currently only one or the other.  If you really wanted 5G for Verizon, you could check XDA to see if there are any conversion methods to do so.  You would lose n71 though, if it is possible to convert it. 

                              • ittech

                                Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                                The modem is capable, but the phone is not. To receive mmWave,  it requires the addition of mmWave antenna modules which are an extra cost and space consuming item. The decision was made not to include them. This is NOT an mmWave phone and it is not a software issue.

                                  • syaoran

                                    Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                                    When I check XDA, the flashing guide for the Note 10 5G's suggest the hardware is exactly the same.  I didn't read the 30+ pages but Samsung is fairly lazy with their manufacturing processes.  You don't need a special antenna to use mmWave.  The 5G modem has everything it needs to access which ever 5G bands the device has in its software to access.

                                      • ittech

                                        Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                                        I don't know what you are reading on XDA as I am often there and that is not true. First, the Verizon 5G uses the first generation x50 modem which does do mmWave and works on Verizon's network, but does not do all types of sub 6 low band 5G, thus, no T-Mobile Note 10+ 5G as the primary thrust of T-Mobile is low band 600 Mhz 5G.

                                         

                                        That requires the 2nd generation of modems, the x55, which accounted for the delay. They are not the same hardware. As to the antenna module? Read this page: Snapdragon X55 5G Modem-RF System | Qualcomm

                                        Look down the page for the diagram and you will see what is needed for mmWave.  And note this paragraph on that page:Paired with Qualcomm Technologies’ mmWave antenna module and comprehensive RF front-end portfolio, Snapdragon X55 is at the heart of a 5G NR modem-to-antenna solution that allows OEMs to rapidly develop 5G devices for global networks"

                                         

                                        Yes, there is an extra antenna module. There is for the x50 modem as well.

                                          • syaoran

                                            Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                                            The AT&T and Verizon model have the same model number but slightly different firmware.  AT&T is going to deploy 5G over band 2 in some areas.  The X55 is a more capable modem over the X50.

                                            • tidbits

                                              Re: Note 10+ 5G -- 5G Support

                                              ittech wrote:

                                               

                                              I don't know what you are reading on XDA as I am often there and that is not true. First, the Verizon 5G uses the first generation x50 modem which does do mmWave and works on Verizon's network, but does not do all types of sub 6 low band 5G, thus, no T-Mobile Note 10+ 5G as the primary thrust of T-Mobile is low band 600 Mhz 5G.

                                               

                                              That requires the 2nd generation of modems, the x55, which accounted for the delay. They are not the same hardware. As to the antenna module? Read this page: Snapdragon X55 5G Modem-RF System | Qualcomm

                                              Look down the page for the diagram and you will see what is needed for mmWave. And note this paragraph on that page:Paired with Qualcomm Technologies’ mmWave antenna module and comprehensive RF front-end portfolio, Snapdragon X55 is at the heart of a 5G NR modem-to-antenna solution that allows OEMs to rapidly develop 5G devices for global networks"

                                               

                                              Yes, there is an extra antenna module. There is for the x50 modem as well.

                                              That module is nothing special as you think it will be. As I said before the space is there and they(Samsung) could have put it in there at no additional cost other than QC licensing fee, but OEMs don't like to future proof as it affects future sales.  One reason why Android for example only offers 2 years of full OS support even if Google makes it modular to the point where Google can update the OS in the backend and wouldn't affect OEM skins and features.  It's parts manufactures EOL the parts.