Question

Intermittent Service t-Mobile 5G

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I just received my 5G gateway and have set this up. I’m a software engineer with a solid knowledge of electronics and telecoms but I’m not up to date with latest stuff.

Anyway I have the device setup, we also have ADSL but I want to explore 5G so I subscribed to see how it behaves.

I have a single PC cabled into the gateway, nothing else in the house communicates (yet) with the gateway (my phone does talk to the gateway over wifi to inspect it, but that’s all).

I got a 3bar signal and set the unit on my desk and it seemed OK, very much faster than ADSL.

But after an hour I began to get randomly “No internet” and the device had disconnected. This has been the case for the past two hours now. Up then down like 10 mins, 5 mins, 2 mins, 8 mins uptime then brief loss of connection.

The 3bar signal strength seems steady.

There are a primary and secondary signals reported on the web page that proves the gateway.

Does anyone have any idea what lies behind these disconnects?

My zip is 85207 and all indications are we have “5G Ultra Capacity” I am a few miles away from various buttes that have lots of towers, one is west of me and during the setup my phone indicated a signal source west of me, so I’m assuming that tower is the location of the signal.

Because of these buttes and my proximity to them and no tall buildings around I’d assumed I was advantageously placed.

So what to do? I can see numerous threads about this from other people, is the service really that poor?

My ADSL - though much slower - has no reliability issues, up 24/7.

 

 

 

 

24 replies

iTinkeralot
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OK so you are in Mesa AZ. Sounds nice and hot. 🙂 If you just received your T-Mo Gateway I will assume you have the Arcadyan. (rounded corners, not a cylinder) If the web interface provides the info now for the PCI values for the 4G and 5G signals use the PCI value to find the tower(s) that source your signals. Look at and record the cellular metrics and determine the signal strength and quality. If you can put the GW in a location so it gets a stronger, cleaner signal that might help. If T-Mobile engineers are working on the equipment for the towers in the area then the disruptions can be tower related not router related. Some users have complained about heat issues and found if the gateway gets too warm it tends to have such behavior as signal integrity issues. 

If the signal source is West and based upon you saying, “we have “5G Ultra Capacity”.” that tells me it is an n41 signal. You need to determine how far it is to the tower and know your cellular metrics. The n41 is a millimeter wavelength so it does not travel as far as the longer n71 but is faster for downloads. The functional distance for really good speeds might range out to 2.5 miles but 3 miles is pushing the edge of the signal for the performance you really want. If the signal is strong and has good quality with the SINR in the good to excellent range then you can expect some nice speeds. Keep in mind those buttes may cause reflected signals so improving the SINR would be important. The actual direction the signal comes in might be surprising as a reflected signal might what your gateway is seeing vs a direct signal. Cellular communication has lots of things that can influence the signal so I would say dont assume anything. Investigate what is going on and experiment a bit to get a strong clean, signal.

Below is a chart that explains the cellular metrics. This plus 100% location of the tower, if possible, via using cellmapper.net can help know and improve the signal to the gateway.

I dont have the Arcadyan gateway. I have the Nokia GW so getting the PCI values with the Nokia is simple and direct. I don’t know if the latest firmware for the Arcadyan reports the PCI values via the web interface via 192.168.12.1. I believe the mobile application does report the PCI values for the signals. The PCI is the physical cell identifier. Very useful info. 

If not the link below from Nater Tater’s YouTube videos on the Arcadyan does provide cellular information.

http://192.168.12.1/TMI/v1/gateway?get=all

Hopefully this will help you get the signal more stable. If not then find out if T-Mobile monkeys are on the tower messing with the cables and gear.

S
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So here’s the stats:

 

20220608 12:05:05  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:05  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:06  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:06  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:19  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:19  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:20  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:20  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:27  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:27  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:28  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:28  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:32  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:32  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:33  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:33  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:37  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:37  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:38  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:38  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:43  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:05:43  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:05:44  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:05:45  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:07:00  NEW_LOCAL_IP_ADDRESS     172.24.176.1
20220608 12:07:00  NO_ACTIVE_VPN_DETECTED   
20220608 12:07:00  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:07:16  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:07:16  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:07:17  GATEWAY_OFFLINE          
20220608 12:07:18  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:07:20  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:07:20  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:07:22  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:07:24  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:07:24  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:08
20220608 12:07:24  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:08
20220608 12:07:52  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:07:52  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:07:53  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:07:53  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:08:09  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:08:09  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:08:09  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:08:13  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:08:13  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:08:13  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:08:17  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:08
20220608 12:08:17  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:08
20220608 12:08:20  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:08:24  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:08:24  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:08:24  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:08:28  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:08:28  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:08:28  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:08:33  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:09
20220608 12:08:33  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:09
20220608 12:08:36  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:09:22  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:09:22  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:09:23  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:09:23  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:09:30  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:09:30  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:09:31  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:09:31  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:09:32  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:09:32  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:09:36  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:09:38  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:09:38  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:09:40  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:09:45  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:12
20220608 12:09:45  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:12
20220608 12:09:48  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:10:10  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:10:10  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:10:11  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:11  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:21  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:10:21  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:10:22  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:22  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:26  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:10:26  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:10:28  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:10:30  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:10:30  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:10:32  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:10:37  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:10
20220608 12:10:37  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:10
20220608 12:10:40  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:10:41  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:10:41  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:10:42  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:42  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:01
20220608 12:10:44  NEW_PUBLIC_IP_ADDRESS    2607:fb90:2d87:5230:3c0f:9fbe:3849:e506
20220608 12:11:43  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:11:43  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
20220608 12:11:47  GATEWAY_OFFLINE          
20220608 12:12:22  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:12:24  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:12:24  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:12:26  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:12:28  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   fe80::e21f:2bff:fe7b:e655%5
20220608 12:12:29  INTERNET_OUTAGE_ENDED    DURATION: 000:00:00:45
20220608 12:12:29  DNS_RESOLUTION_RESTORED  DURATION: 000:00:00:45
20220608 12:12:44  NEW_PUBLIC_IP_ADDRESS    2607:fb90:2d87:5230:e93c:d8e:fc77:145d
20220608 12:12:59  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:12:59  INTERNET_OUTAGE_START    
20220608 12:13:01  CONNECTED_VIA_ETHERNET   
20220608 12:13:01  GATEWAY_TESTING_ON       
20220608 12:13:03  NEW_GATEWAY_IP_ADDRESS   192.168.12.1
20220608 12:13:05  GATEWAY_TESTING_OFF      
20220608 12:13:09  DNS_RESOLUTION_FAILURE   
 

These were obtained using ISP watchdog: https://www.isp-watchdog.com/

 

The above is with a LAN connection, we get pretty much the same behavior with WiFi connection.

 

 

 

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Hi and thanks for the details.

I do have the NOKIA Gateway, grey cylinder.

It has most recently released firmware.

The device lists two signal details:

Primary: 2 bars, PCI 154, Band B2, EARFCN 675

Secondary: 3 bars, PCI 166, Band n41, NR-ARFCN 527790

The SNR on the primary is a frightening -6 dB

The SNR on the secondary is 10 dB

 

Now, I’m seeing something odd, no hard evidence but definitely a suspicion

If I connect the unit with a LAN cable to my PC I get repeated loss of internet, regularly, up for at most a minute, down for like 10 secs and up again for random time, usually less than a minute.

 

If I relocate the unit across the room and use long LAN cable, same thing.

If I disconnect LAN and use my Surface to connect to its WiFi, it seems I get higher stability, seems almost fine in fact.

Is there a know issue with the LAN interface? could such a thing really go unnoticed?

Here’s what that cellmapper reveales:

 

 

My house is the square in the upper right hand part of the picture. Seems there’s nothing on that small butte after all, the far left red dot is more or less west of me and the nearer red dot is more or less due south west.

 

That Band 41 tower is 2,500 ft or so from my house in fact, and there are several other band 41 towers west of me too it seems.

 

 

 

 

S
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I just found this too:

 

https://fccid.io/2ADZR5G2112WA/User-Manual/User-manual-4835902.pdf

 

S
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A huge weakness with this Nokia gateway is the lack of logs or counters. With my ADSL modem I can see a huge amount of details like how many DSL link losses to date or past 24 hours and so on. There’s no way to find out from the Nokia if we’ve lost and regained a connection because there’s no history, none that I can find anyway.

Another gripe is the location of the status display. Having that on the top is crazy because one must be looking down on it to see the signal strength, pretty hard to do if one is situating it high up in a room.

 

S
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That manual says

The Connection screen is the first that is displayed after on boarding is successful. The Connection screen displays the RSRP of 4G/LTE and 5G signals. The title of the screen is “CONNECTION”. The bars indicate the signal strength. The RSRP of 5G signal is shown when there is only 5G connection (in SA mode). The strongest RSRP signal (4G and 5G) are shown when both 4G and 5G connections are established.

 

Yet I see in the web UI that the 5G signal has 4 bars and the 4G has 3 bars, yet the display on the top of the unit shows 3 bars!

 

 

S
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This is quite insane. I now have my desktop cabled to the gateway on a LAN port and at the same time my Surface connected to the gateway over wifi. The device using WiFi sees a stable service, the PC see’s the connection going up/down, up/down…

What the heck is going on...

The LAN cable is 35 ft long but I had the same issue this morning with a cable just 4 ft long so I doubt its cable or cable length. The same 4ft cable is used to connect to DSL modem anyway and that has no issues.

 

 

iTinkeralot
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Well, keep in mind the LED bars on the router are generic and the cellular metrics are where you can dial it in. With your location roughly ½ mile from the n41 you should get some pretty good speeds. Use speedtest.net and fast.com and get some speed results. The T-Mobile solution uses the secondary 5G signal for downloads and the 4G LTE for uploads so I would expect to see poor uploads and higher latency and jitter on the 4G. Having some data related to performance, speed might be good. With the clean signal to the n41 you should get pretty impressive download speed.

So, what category of cable are you using? Is the Ethernet cable fabricated in a facility or home built? 

S
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I started a thread: 

The cables are all purchased and several have been used today (not because I suspected a problem with them).

I’ll do some more testing in a minute, it could conceivably be the cables….

iTinkeralot
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OK so if you had no issues with the DSL modem with the cable what is the client? Windows, Apple, Linux? What is the network card? Realtec or Intel, any idea? If windows pull up system information. Check the driver. Maybe the client NIC has a driver issue. If you have another PC connect the two back to back with the same cable and give both IP addresses so they can talk. Then run a constant ping between the two and see if they stay up and stable for a test.

N

I’m getting ready to dump this horribly inconsistent service.. can’t take it anymore. I’ve had both the arcadyan and the Nokia.. the service sucks and is intermittent at its best. Makes streaming impossible.

iTinkeralot
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I have firmware version 1.2104.00.0286 running and I use both LAN interfaces with Ethernet switches and have at least 6-7 wired clients plus wireless clients but I have seen no behavior like that.

iTinkeralot
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The standard for gigabit Ethernet requires CAT 5e or better. I prefer to run CAT 6 cables and all my cables are high quality build by a reputable manufacturer. OK, so I do have a couple that might be Cat 5e but no Cat 5 now. I tossed all those. 

Check the statistics and see if there are “Sent or Receive Errors” or discards on the wired connection.

 

iTinkeralot
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I have not seen any conversations where users have reported issues with the wired Ethernet ports. That is not to say there could not be one. I have not seen any posts as such. Make sure the Ethernet cable is secure in the RJ45 port. It might be a driver issue or just a cable that has a RJ45 connector that does not mate well with the RJ45 port on the Nokia. Having out of spec connectors is usually when a connector is not made per the specifications where a manufacturer does not have good controls. It could be a problem with the gateway Ethernet module. It would be a strange one. I would expect to see errors on the statistics if that were the case.

I can understand the frustration with the intermittent disruptions and buffering. We had a couple of episodes like that but the problems were resolved. If the service in your area is a newer deployment they may still be working on the towers. That is when such behavior is fairly common. Unfortunately they dont provide any prior notification related to maintenance work being performed. 

iTinkeralot
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Ah… you found a draft. I had found the End User Guide some time ago. 

1 Attachment
iTinkeralot
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I found cell LTE cell PCI154. It is just West of South Ironwood Drive and between W Apache Trail and W Broadway. The cell ID is 226331147 and the eNB ID 884106 - LTE (i.e. the tower.) Not sure how far that is from where you are based the map you posted. Too hard to nail down with out exact locations. You should be able to find that tower with the search for the eNB.

When filtering for 5G NR towers I don’t see the tower you are referring to. Need the eNB number. Not sure where that n41 5G signal originates but I can see the 4G LTE.

S
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I have firmware version 1.2104.00.0286 running and I use both LAN interfaces with Ethernet switches and have at least 6-7 wired clients plus wireless clients but I have seen no behavior like that.

Hi,

Have you tried connecting a computer right to the LAN port? not via any switches/networks?

 

iTinkeralot
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When filtering for Band n41, NR-ARFCN 527790 I can see three towers that have band N41 but none of them have the PCI 166 on record. 

gNB ID 3671592 - NR has Cell 301; cell identifier 7519420717, ARFCN 527790 PCI 297

gNB ID 3685636 - NR has Cell 301; cell identifier 7548182829, ARFCN 527790 PCI 33

gNB ID 3672002 - NR has Cell 302 ; cell identifier 7520260398, ARFCN 527790 PCI 325

I can’t seem to locate n41 with a PCI 166. It may be there but not yet in the database. There is no info to determine the direction of the cells so I suspect there to be another tower where PCI 166 must originate.

Response: I did connect my MacBook Pro on the gateway direct but prior to this software. It is connected now as it is my main management client. So yes I have had a single client connected to the gateway. I have Windows 10, Apple iOS, and MacOS both, and Linux clients. I currently have 17 clients live and I am getting 137 Mbs down and 51 Mbs upload so it looks pretty good tonight.

iTinkeralot
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What OS is your wired client running? If you are running a Win 10 client it is pretty simple to go into the  network settings for the NIC and instead of allowing it to auto negotiate set it gigabit. Force it in effect. The capability handshake negotiation between clients is a low level and there might be some low level signaling that is not working well between the client and the gateway. As a test it might prove helpful. 

I use two different gigabit switches by different vendors plus I have used my MAC direct against the gateway. I can’t remember if I used one of my W10 clients or a Linux client direct against the gateway. Given how many users connect routers to the T-Mobile gateways I don’t believe there is a major issue with Ethernet ports on the gateways. The technology is very mature. It might be a bad Ethernet module but without testing equipment it would be hard to say.

iTinkeralot
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IF you have an Android phone there are Network analyzers. Network Cell Info Lite on the Google Play store could be used to locate the 5G cell towers, assuming you have a 5G Android phone. 

Open Signal might be helpful if nothing else but to get a direction for the tower. It might be the 5G cell you receive is on a tower with 4G LTE but is not in the CellMapper.net database. I don’t see a reference to that PCI value for an n41 5G NR signal.

Using an Apple iPhone makes the task difficult. You can put the iPhone into Field Test Mode and get information about its service. Like dialing a phone number but *3001#12345#* then enter/send. 

iTinkeralot
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Filtering for the n41 5G NR bands only. I can see the n41 and n71 both.

There may be another tower with that PCI value but it is not in the database.

  • Network
    • 5G bands: N41, N71
    • 4G LTE bands: B2, B4, B5, B12, B71, B66
iTinkeralot
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Curious, I wonder if eNB ID 884107 - LTE Cell 131 PCI 166 at E-W. Apache Trail and S. Meridian Drive is now an n41 5G NR signal. That is just NW of eNB ID 884106 - LTE. 

Ah, it looks like there are high voltage power lines running SW to NE just south of that R/C Airpark? Just north of East Brown Road. I don’t know if the marking across is for high voltage power lines or not but I believe they are. There might be some noise introduced that impacts the cellular signals. I don’t know how far you are from the tower but if the power lines intersect the Fresnel zone it might be possible some EM from the flux on the power lines is related to the noise. Just speculating as I am not a cellular expert. 

With cellular communications you always have to consider external factors that can impact the signal. Again I don’t know your actual location so you can map out the findings on Google Earth and consider the distances and the terrain and just see what jives.

S
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OK all my problems were connected with DCHP, see the other thread:

 

iTinkeralot
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Great problem resolved. Static IP on the wired interface. Strange how the interface would bounce. Oh well, another issue in the rear view mirror.

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